Hi,

I have a question from a friend. Her daughters have nut allergies. She
wants to know how long it takes from cruise (41K?) to a gate from the time
they notify the crew of a medical emergency (e.g. anaphylactic shock).
Obviously it depends on their proximity to a suitable airport, but I'd like
to hear from the airline pilots in this group. She is specifically
referring to a flight from the SF Bay Area to the NY area.

She does have some medication/injection to give them, but obviously she
would want real medical treatment ASAP.

As a pilot, what kind of descent rates can a 737/A320/747 etc get in a
medical mergency? Would this descent rate be different than a descent for
decompression?

Thanks,

Hilton

Hilton wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a question from a friend. Her daughters have nut allergies. She
> wants to know how long it takes from cruise (41K?) to a gate from the time
> they notify the crew of a medical emergency (e.g. anaphylactic shock).
> Obviously it depends on their proximity to a suitable airport, but I'd like
> to hear from the airline pilots in this group. She is specifically
> referring to a flight from the SF Bay Area to the NY area.
>
> She does have some medication/injection to give them, but obviously she
> would want real medical treatment ASAP.
>
> As a pilot, what kind of descent rates can a 737/A320/747 etc get in a
> medical mergency? Would this descent rate be different than a descent for
> decompression?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton
>
>
No one is going to do a classic decompression descent for any medical
emergency.

But, they can use the speed breaks, bust the 250 limit, etc. If the
weather is crummy below that limits it, too.

But, generally 20 to 30 minutes to be on the ground.

Hilton writes:

> I have a question from a friend. Her daughters have nut allergies. She
> wants to know how long it takes from cruise (41K?) to a gate from the time
> they notify the crew of a medical emergency (e.g. anaphylactic shock).
> Obviously it depends on their proximity to a suitable airport, but I'd like
> to hear from the airline pilots in this group. She is specifically
> referring to a flight from the SF Bay Area to the NY area.

At least 30-40 minutes. If she is indeed prone to anaphylactic shock, she'll
need to be treated on board. And there may not be any airport with suitably
elaborate treatment services available within a short distance. If it happens
over the Rockies, it's going to be a lot longer.

> As a pilot, what kind of descent rates can a 737/A320/747 etc get in a
> medical mergency?

The same rate it can get in a non-emergency. The structural limits of the
aircraft do not change in emergencies. The kinetic energy represented by high
altitude and high speed must be dissipated in every case.

> Would this descent rate be different than a descent for decompression?

No.

While the crew of the flight may make every effort to expedite the landing of
the aircraft at a suitable airport should that be deemed necessary, that
effort will not extend to endangering the flight, crew, and passengers. If a
choice must be made between endangering the entire flight and delaying landing
to treat your friend's daughters, her daughters will lose. If your friend
imagines the pilots putting the aircraft into a wild dive to get to an
airport, she has been watching too many movies.

In every case, the emphasis must be on emergency treatment while in the air.
That's why many aircraft must carry defibrillators now.

Hilton wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a question from a friend. Her daughters have nut allergies. She
> wants to know how long it takes from cruise (41K?) to a gate from the time
> they notify the crew of a medical emergency (e.g. anaphylactic shock).
> Obviously it depends on their proximity to a suitable airport, but I'd like
> to hear from the airline pilots in this group. She is specifically
> referring to a flight from the SF Bay Area to the NY area.
>
> She does have some medication/injection to give them, but obviously she
> would want real medical treatment ASAP.
>
> As a pilot, what kind of descent rates can a 737/A320/747 etc get in a
> medical mergency? Would this descent rate be different than a descent for
> decompression?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton
>
>

The nearest APPROPRIATE landing site may not be the closest (which you
have acknowledged). You may take up to 15 - 30 minutes to get to the
gate in such a situation. If someone is going to die in 5 minutes, then
it doesnt really matter if its 15 minutes or 50 to get to the gate.

They are not going to do a dive/emergency descent for a medical
emergency (in the manner that they would for a cabin
breach/decompression. Those rapid descents are just to get below 10,000
feet then you stablize the flight path and form a plan (the emergency is
mostly over, from a pressurization standpoint then). An overly abrupt
descent can also interfere with providing care to the ill passenger.

If she is a severe anaphalactic, the appropriate course of action is to
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have her epi-pen with her, and not be hesitant
about using it if a true anaphylactic event takes place. Have TWO, in
case something happens to the first one. And thats for each potential
patient.

That IS the treatment. Thats the same drug paramedics or ER staff would
administer. There are other nice things, like benadryl, pepcid and
steroids, but for the real deal, Epinepherine/Adrenaline is the 1st line
priority treatment for anaphylaxis. After Epi.. its mostly a matter of
observing the patient...

Dave

On Feb 19, 11:36*am, "Hilton" > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a question from a friend. *Her daughters have nut allergies. *She
> wants to know how long it takes from cruise (41K?) to a gate from the time
> they notify the crew of a medical emergency (e.g. anaphylactic shock).
> Obviously it depends on their proximity to a suitable airport, but I'd like
> to hear from the airline pilots in this group. *She is specifically
> referring to a flight from the SF Bay Area to the NY area.
>
> She does have some medication/injection to give them, but obviously she
> would want real medical treatment ASAP.
>
> As a pilot, what kind of descent rates can a 737/A320/747 etc get in a
> medical mergency? *Would this descent rate be different than a descent for
> decompression?

Have her bring an Epipen. In fact they may have them onboard. Our Boy
Scout Troop has several (we have several Drs in the Troop so they
provided them). Once she takes the Epipen there should be no medical
emergency. We have a couple boys in our troop that have severe (life
threatening peanut allergies).

-Robert

Robert, Dave,

Thank you for your info, I'll pass that along. She has three daughters,
first is allergic to sesame seeds, second to nuts, and third to dairy!

Oh, and she's severely afraid of flying (since the birth of he daughters).
I try to ease her fears and describe the departure out of SJC etc so that
she can anticipate the flaps up, right turn, throttle back, level out, add
power, climb, turn - it's all standard in the departure. It hasn't really
helped - I'll be amazed if she actually gets on the flight to JFK.

Thanks again.

Hilton


"Dave S" > wrote in message
...
> Hilton wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a question from a friend. Her daughters have nut allergies. She
>> wants to know how long it takes from cruise (41K?) to a gate from the
>> time they notify the crew of a medical emergency (e.g. anaphylactic
>> shock). Obviously it depends on their proximity to a suitable airport,
>> but I'd like to hear from the airline pilots in this group. She is
>> specifically referring to a flight from the SF Bay Area to the NY area.
>>
>> She does have some medication/injection to give them, but obviously she
>> would want real medical treatment ASAP.
>>
>> As a pilot, what kind of descent rates can a 737/A320/747 etc get in a
>> medical mergency? Would this descent rate be different than a descent
>> for decompression?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hilton
>>
>>
>
> The nearest APPROPRIATE landing site may not be the closest (which you
> have acknowledged). You may take up to 15 - 30 minutes to get to the gate
> in such a situation. If someone is going to die in 5 minutes, then it
> doesnt really matter if its 15 minutes or 50 to get to the gate.
>
> They are not going to do a dive/emergency descent for a medical emergency
> (in the manner that they would for a cabin breach/decompression. Those
> rapid descents are just to get below 10,000 feet then you stablize the
> flight path and form a plan (the emergency is mostly over, from a
> pressurization standpoint then). An overly abrupt descent can also
> interfere with providing care to the ill passenger.
>
> If she is a severe anaphalactic, the appropriate course of action is to
> ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have her epi-pen with her, and not be hesitant about
> using it if a true anaphylactic event takes place. Have TWO, in case
> something happens to the first one. And thats for each potential patient.
>
> That IS the treatment. Thats the same drug paramedics or ER staff would
> administer. There are other nice things, like benadryl, pepcid and
> steroids, but for the real deal, Epinepherine/Adrenaline is the 1st line
> priority treatment for anaphylaxis. After Epi.. its mostly a matter of
> observing the patient...
>
> Dave

Robert M. Gary writes:

> Have her bring an Epipen. In fact they may have them onboard. Our Boy
> Scout Troop has several (we have several Drs in the Troop so they
> provided them).

Federal law prohibits the dispensing of Epipen without a prescription.

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>
>>Have her bring an Epipen. In fact they may have them onboard. Our Boy
>>Scout Troop has several (we have several Drs in the Troop so they
>>provided them).
>
>
> Federal law prohibits the dispensing of Epipen without a prescription.

Shows how much you know about airline medical kits.

Sam Spade writes:

> Shows how much you know about airline medical kits.

I know that they are intended for use by airlines aboard aircraft, not for use
by Scout troups.

On Feb 20, 8:08*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
> > Have her bring an Epipen. In fact they may have them onboard. Our Boy
> > Scout Troop has several (we have several Drs in the Troop so they
> > provided them).
>
> Federal law prohibits the dispensing of Epipen without a prescription.

So are you saying the Epipens that several of the dads in the troop
who are medical doctors put in the kit are fake? I'm not following
what you are saying.
Are you saying that all the emergency drugs in an ambulance are
available without a Dr's concent?

-Robert

On 2008-02-20, Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> Are you saying that all the emergency drugs in an ambulance are
> available without a Dr's concent?

When I was a volunteer paramedic, all of the drugs on our ambulance had
prescriptions on file from our medical director. I wouldn't be surprised if
the airlines had similar arrangements.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Jay Maynard wrote:
> On 2008-02-20, Robert M. Gary > wrote:
>
>>Are you saying that all the emergency drugs in an ambulance are
>>available without a Dr's concent?
>
>
> When I was a volunteer paramedic, all of the drugs on our ambulance had
> prescriptions on file from our medical director. I wouldn't be surprised if
> the airlines had similar arrangements.

Not to mention, most major airlines today have instant medical
consultation available to the flight crew, via satellite link.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

Hilton wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a question from a friend. Her daughters have nut allergies. She
> wants to know how long it takes from cruise (41K?) to a gate from the time
> they notify the crew of a medical emergency (e.g. anaphylactic shock).
> Obviously it depends on their proximity to a suitable airport, but I'd like
> to hear from the airline pilots in this group. She is specifically
> referring to a flight from the SF Bay Area to the NY area.
>
> She does have some medication/injection to give them, but obviously she
> would want real medical treatment ASAP.
>
> As a pilot, what kind of descent rates can a 737/A320/747 etc get in a
> medical mergency? Would this descent rate be different than a descent for
> decompression?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton
>
>
Several years back I was on a flight from Atlanta to Orlando on a B-757.
About halfway there we were at 31000 ft. and I heard one flight
attendant tell another "We're got to get this stuff (referring to
service items)picked up NOW!" About that time the spoilers popped up,
and we nosed down. There had been smoke in the passenger cabin, with
somewhat of a electrical insulation odor and we were heading to
Jacksonville as fas as we could get on the ground. As I recall, we were
on the ground and at the gate in less than 15 minutes from the first
indications of an 'event'. (The problem turned out to be a minor short
in the crew computer.)
Mike

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Jay Maynard wrote:
> On 2008-02-20, Robert M. Gary > wrote:
>
>>Are you saying that all the emergency drugs in an ambulance are
>>available without a Dr's concent?
>
>
> When I was a volunteer paramedic, all of the drugs on our ambulance had
> prescriptions on file from our medical director. I wouldn't be surprised if
> the airlines had similar arrangements.

No, airline personnel aren't nearly as well trained as paramedics. Some
of the stuff can be used only if an MD can be found on the flight.

Robert M. Gary writes:

> So are you saying the Epipens that several of the dads in the troop
> who are medical doctors put in the kit are fake?

I'm saying that each needs a prescription for use. Epipens contain controlled
substances. They can only be used subsequent to a valid prescription. You
cannot just carry them around for self-service any more than you can carry
Fentanyl around.

Mike writes:

> Several years back I was on a flight from Atlanta to Orlando on a B-757.
> About halfway there we were at 31000 ft. and I heard one flight
> attendant tell another "We're got to get this stuff (referring to
> service items)picked up NOW!" About that time the spoilers popped up,
> and we nosed down. There had been smoke in the passenger cabin, with
> somewhat of a electrical insulation odor and we were heading to
> Jacksonville as fas as we could get on the ground. As I recall, we were
> on the ground and at the gate in less than 15 minutes from the first
> indications of an 'event'. (The problem turned out to be a minor short
> in the crew computer.)

An emergency affecting the entire flight is different from an emergency
affecting a single passenger.

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Mike writes:
>
>> Several years back I was on a flight from Atlanta to Orlando on a B-757.
>> About halfway there we were at 31000 ft. and I heard one flight
>> attendant tell another "We're got to get this stuff (referring to
>> service items)picked up NOW!" About that time the spoilers popped up,
>> and we nosed down. There had been smoke in the passenger cabin, with
>> somewhat of a electrical insulation odor and we were heading to
>> Jacksonville as fas as we could get on the ground. As I recall, we were
>> on the ground and at the gate in less than 15 minutes from the first
>> indications of an 'event'. (The problem turned out to be a minor short
>> in the crew computer.)
>
> An emergency affecting the entire flight is different from an emergency
> affecting a single passenger.

Not for the single passenger.

Hilton

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>
>>So are you saying the Epipens that several of the dads in the troop
>>who are medical doctors put in the kit are fake?
>
>
> I'm saying that each needs a prescription for use. Epipens contain controlled
> substances. They can only be used subsequent to a valid prescription. You
> cannot just carry them around for self-service any more than you can carry
> Fentanyl around.

You just simply don't know what you are talking about.

Federal regulation pertaining to U.S. certificated Part 121 air carriers
trumps any prescription laws.

§ 121.803 Emergency medical equipment.

And, in particular, Appendix A to 121.803.

Hilton wrote:

> "Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Mike writes:
>>
>>
>>>Several years back I was on a flight from Atlanta to Orlando on a B-757.
>>> About halfway there we were at 31000 ft. and I heard one flight
>>>attendant tell another "We're got to get this stuff (referring to
>>>service items)picked up NOW!" About that time the spoilers popped up,
>>>and we nosed down. There had been smoke in the passenger cabin, with
>>>somewhat of a electrical insulation odor and we were heading to
>>>Jacksonville as fas as we could get on the ground. As I recall, we were
>>>on the ground and at the gate in less than 15 minutes from the first
>>>indications of an 'event'. (The problem turned out to be a minor short
>>>in the crew computer.)
>>
>>An emergency affecting the entire flight is different from an emergency
>>affecting a single passenger.
>
>
> Not for the single passenger.
>
> Hilton
>
>
Yes, but what counts is the PICs risk/benefit assessment for the other
passengers and crew.

On 2008-02-22, Sam Spade > wrote:
> Federal regulation pertaining to U.S. certificated Part 121 air carriers
> trumps any prescription laws.

Uh, no.

A federal regulation does not trump a federal law. The law requiring things
to be dispensed only on the order of a physician is a federal law. Now, it
is possible that the law that authorizes the FAA also creates an exemption
to the Food & Drug Act (or whatever it's called), but the FAA itself cannot
override a law.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:08:42 GMT, Jay Maynard
> wrote:

>On 2008-02-22, Sam Spade > wrote:
>> Federal regulation pertaining to U.S. certificated Part 121 air carriers
>> trumps any prescription laws.
>
>Uh, no.
>
>A federal regulation does not trump a federal law. The law requiring things
>to be dispensed only on the order of a physician is a federal law. Now, it
>is possible that the law that authorizes the FAA also creates an exemption
>to the Food & Drug Act (or whatever it's called), but the FAA itself cannot
>override a law.

The regulation requiring airliners to carry a medical kit which includes
certain prescription drugs is not in conflict with the Food & Drug act.

You're discussing two different issues.

One is whether or not the epinephrine can be legally carried in the medical
kit of a certificated airliner. It can be, and is.

Two is the process under which the epinephrine gets used. There are a
variety of personnel authorized to administer regulated drugs without
having a prescription. Physicians are certainly on that list.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On 2008-02-22, Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
> The regulation requiring airliners to carry a medical kit which includes
> certain prescription drugs is not in conflict with the Food & Drug act.

Not if the airline follows the Food & Drug Act and has a prescription or
other order from a docttor to have it. The regulation cannot override or
waive the law.

> You're discussing two different issues.
> One is whether or not the epinephrine can be legally carried in the medical
> kit of a certificated airliner. It can be, and is.

If a doctor orders it. It's not difficult to obtain such an order, but
without it, they can't do it legally. The law says that the medication may
not be dispensed without the order of a physician. Dispensed does not mean
"used or administered", it means "sold or delivered by a pharmacy or drug
distributor or manufacturer".
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:52:42 GMT, Jay Maynard
> wrote:

>On 2008-02-22, Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
>> The regulation requiring airliners to carry a medical kit which includes
>> certain prescription drugs is not in conflict with the Food & Drug act.
>
>Not if the airline follows the Food & Drug Act and has a prescription or
>other order from a docttor to have it. The regulation cannot override or
>waive the law.


>
>> You're discussing two different issues.
>> One is whether or not the epinephrine can be legally carried in the medical
>> kit of a certificated airliner. It can be, and is.
>
>If a doctor orders it. It's not difficult to obtain such an order, but
>without it, they can't do it legally. The law says that the medication may
>not be dispensed without the order of a physician. Dispensed does not mean
>"used or administered", it means "sold or delivered by a pharmacy or drug
>distributor or manufacturer".

I agree that the regulation cannot waive the law, but I don't believe that
these emergency kits violate any law. If there is some legal requirement
for a physician to have a role in the stocking of the kit, I'd guess that
requirement would be met by running the paper through the airline medical
department.

My understanding is that the kit (the one with the restricted stuff in it)
is for use only by medical professionals. At least that's what I've read
in medical literature.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On 2008-02-22, Ron Rosenfeld > wrote:
> I agree that the regulation cannot waive the law, but I don't believe that
> these emergency kits violate any law. If there is some legal requirement
> for a physician to have a role in the stocking of the kit, I'd guess that
> requirement would be met by running the paper through the airline medical
> department.

I didn't say the kits violated the law. I just said that they needed a
doctor's order to obtain. I'm certain the airline has such an order from a
doctor in its inhouse medical department, or other physician. That's all
I've been saying.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Sam Spade writes:

> Federal regulation pertaining to U.S. certificated Part 121 air carriers
> trumps any prescription laws.

No, it does not.

Ron Rosenfeld writes:

> One is whether or not the epinephrine can be legally carried in the medical
> kit of a certificated airliner. It can be, and is.

It is legal to carry and possess prescription drugs in certain contexts, but
that is distinct from the authority to dispense or administer them.

> Two is the process under which the epinephrine gets used. There are a
> variety of personnel authorized to administer regulated drugs without
> having a prescription. Physicians are certainly on that list.

Where can I find this list?

Jay Maynard writes:

> If a doctor orders it. It's not difficult to obtain such an order, but
> without it, they can't do it legally. The law says that the medication may
> not be dispensed without the order of a physician. Dispensed does not mean
> "used or administered", it means "sold or delivered by a pharmacy or drug
> distributor or manufacturer".

Not true. Drug manufacturers deliver drugs all the time to pharmacies and
they do this without prescriptions.

Hilton writes:

> Not for the single passenger.

That's a problem for the single passenger, not the rest of the flight.

Jay Maynard wrote:
> On 2008-02-22, Sam Spade > wrote:
>
>>Federal regulation pertaining to U.S. certificated Part 121 air carriers
>>trumps any prescription laws.
>
>
> Uh, no.
>
> A federal regulation does not trump a federal law. The law requiring things
> to be dispensed only on the order of a physician is a federal law. Now, it
> is possible that the law that authorizes the FAA also creates an exemption
> to the Food & Drug Act (or whatever it's called), but the FAA itself cannot
> override a law.

The FAA didn't pull 121.803 out of their butt. Congress provided them
with stautory authority in some manner.

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Sam Spade writes:
>
>
>>Federal regulation pertaining to U.S. certificated Part 121 air carriers
>>trumps any prescription laws.
>
>
> No, it does not.

Thanks Captain, I knew you would set me straight from your MicroSoft
Simulator perch.

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
>
> My understanding is that the kit (the one with the restricted stuff in it)
> is for use only by medical professionals. At least that's what I've read
> in medical literature.
> Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

It's been a long time since I was PIC in 121 (but nut as long as Manicax.)

When they started putting that stuff in the kit we were told that the
restricted part of the kit could only be opened by an MD or DO. So, if
there wasn't one of those two on board, no use allowed.

"Sam Spade" > wrote in message
...
> Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
>...
> When they started putting that stuff in the kit we were told that the
> restricted part of the kit could only be opened by an MD or DO. So, if
> there wasn't one of those two on board, no use allowed.
It sounds like a Monty Python skit. I start gasping and explain that my
throat is closing up because I at some shrimp for lunch. They say there is
no MD on board so nobody can administer the Epi-pen. "I'll do it myself.
Please pass the pen!" Sorry, you're not a doctor. We can't do that.
But I'm dying! That is too bad, maybe we can give you a discount coupon for
the inconvenience. We look forward to serving you in the future.

Stubby wrote:
> "Sam Spade" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
>>...
>>When they started putting that stuff in the kit we were told that the
>>restricted part of the kit could only be opened by an MD or DO. So, if
>>there wasn't one of those two on board, no use allowed.
>
> It sounds like a Monty Python skit. I start gasping and explain that my
> throat is closing up because I at some shrimp for lunch. They say there is
> no MD on board so nobody can administer the Epi-pen. "I'll do it myself.
> Please pass the pen!" Sorry, you're not a doctor. We can't do that.
> But I'm dying! That is too bad, maybe we can give you a discount coupon for
> the inconvenience. We look forward to serving you in the future.
>
>
Whatever.

Why would you travel without a medication for a known life-threatening
condition?

It isn't exactly an unexpected heart attack.

Stubby writes:

> It sounds like a Monty Python skit. I start gasping and explain that my
> throat is closing up because I at some shrimp for lunch. They say there is
> no MD on board so nobody can administer the Epi-pen. "I'll do it myself.
> Please pass the pen!" Sorry, you're not a doctor. We can't do that.
> But I'm dying! That is too bad, maybe we can give you a discount coupon for
> the inconvenience. We look forward to serving you in the future.

Obtain a prescription from a doctor and carry an Epipen of your own. It would
be irresponsible not to if you know you are subject to this type of reaction.

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Mike writes:
>
>> Several years back I was on a flight from Atlanta to Orlando on a B-757.
>> About halfway there we were at 31000 ft. and I heard one flight
>> attendant tell another "We're got to get this stuff (referring to
>> service items)picked up NOW!" About that time the spoilers popped up,
>> and we nosed down. There had been smoke in the passenger cabin, with
>> somewhat of a electrical insulation odor and we were heading to
>> Jacksonville as fas as we could get on the ground. As I recall, we were
>> on the ground and at the gate in less than 15 minutes from the first
>> indications of an 'event'. (The problem turned out to be a minor short
>> in the crew computer.)
>
> An emergency affecting the entire flight is different from an emergency
> affecting a single passenger.
Perhaps.. Perhaps not.
The OP asked how quickly the aircraft could reach medical help on the
ground. I believe my experience addressed that question. It is up to
the PIC to determine the extent of the emergency. I suspect that if the
PIC of a commercial flight believed that the life of a single passenger
was in danger unless medical help was obtained soon, the resulting
"flight profile" would be very similar to what I experienced. All the
PIC has to do is declare an emergency.
Mike ( a "real pilot")

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Viperdoc wrote:
> Let's all remember that Anthony is not a physician, let alone a pilot, and
> he has no training in either area.
>
> Why engage him in these useless debates that he knows nothing about?
>
>
>
I guess to feed this ****ing hopeless troll.

Mike writes:

> Perhaps.. Perhaps not.
> The OP asked how quickly the aircraft could reach medical help on the
> ground. I believe my experience addressed that question. It is up to
> the PIC to determine the extent of the emergency. I suspect that if the
> PIC of a commercial flight believed that the life of a single passenger
> was in danger unless medical help was obtained soon, the resulting
> "flight profile" would be very similar to what I experienced. All the
> PIC has to do is declare an emergency.

Declaring an emergency won't get you down much faster, and things like
anaphylactic shock or cardiac arrest require immediate treatment, not
treatment after a half-hour ride to the airport and taxi to the gate.
Additionally, endangering other passengers for the sake of a single passenger
is a bit Hollywood as well.

Because it wasn't in a plastic bag and was confiscated by TSA...???





On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:33:14 -0800, Sam Spade >
wrote:

>Stubby wrote:
>> "Sam Spade" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
>>>...
>>>When they started putting that stuff in the kit we were told that the
>>>restricted part of the kit could only be opened by an MD or DO. So, if
>>>there wasn't one of those two on board, no use allowed.
>>
>> It sounds like a Monty Python skit. I start gasping and explain that my
>> throat is closing up because I at some shrimp for lunch. They say there is
>> no MD on board so nobody can administer the Epi-pen. "I'll do it myself.
>> Please pass the pen!" Sorry, you're not a doctor. We can't do that.
>> But I'm dying! That is too bad, maybe we can give you a discount coupon for
>> the inconvenience. We look forward to serving you in the future.
>>
>>
>Whatever.
>
>Why would you travel without a medication for a known life-threatening
>condition?
>
>It isn't exactly an unexpected heart attack.

Les Izmore wrote:
> Because it wasn't in a plastic bag and was confiscated by TSA...???
>
They don't confiscate pills, prescription or not. I travel all the time
with one of thos "granny" seven day pill dispensers and another large
container of non-prescription and prescription drugs in my brief case.
Nothing is ever saidl I think labeled precriptions become important
only when travelling internationally.

In the immortal words of Senator Beauregard Claghorn, "That was a a
joke, , I say, that was a joke, son...."


On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 02:46:20 -0800, Sam Spade >
wrote:

>Les Izmore wrote:
>> Because it wasn't in a plastic bag and was confiscated by TSA...???
>>
>They don't confiscate pills, prescription or not. I travel all the time
>with one of thos "granny" seven day pill dispensers and another large
>container of non-prescription and prescription drugs in my brief case.
>Nothing is ever saidl I think labeled precriptions become important
>only when travelling internationally.

On Feb 21, 8:11*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
> > So are you saying the Epipens that several of the dads in the troop
> > who are medical doctors put in the kit are fake?
>
> I'm saying that each needs a prescription for use. *Epipens contain controlled
> substances. *They can only be used subsequent to a valid prescription. *You
> cannot just carry them around for self-service any more than you can carry
> Fentanyl around.

So as a Scout Master if I'm standing over a boy going into shock I
can't give him his Epipen? I have to wait for a a medical evac?? The
dad's in the troop who are MD's have provided training for us to admin
the pen and I have a list of which boys are known to have severe
reactions to such things.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary writes:

> So as a Scout Master if I'm standing over a boy going into shock I
> can't give him his Epipen?

If he has a prescription for the device, no problem (or if you are a licensed
physician, no problem).

> The dad's in the troop who are MD's have provided training for us to admin
> the pen and I have a list of which boys are known to have severe
> reactions to such things.

Are there prescriptions for each boy who needs the pen?

Epinephrine is a prescription drug (FDA regulated). It may be carried
just as any other prescription drug may be: with proper prescription.
Such epinephrine prescriptions (usually for autoinjectors such as
Epipens) cover patients such as those with an anaphylaxis risk.

Fentanyl is a prescription drug (FDA), and it is also a controlled
substance (Drug Enforcement Agency of the Department of Justice). It
may be carried just as other controlled substances may be: with proper
prescription. Such fentanyl prescriptions (usually for transmucosal
fentanyl such as Actiq) cover patients such as those with opioid-treated
cancer pain.

David



David Kazdan, MD, PhD
Anesthesiologist



Mxsmanic wrote:
> Robert M. Gary writes:
>
>> So are you saying the Epipens that several of the dads in the troop
>> who are medical doctors put in the kit are fake?
>
> I'm saying that each needs a prescription for use. Epipens contain controlled
> substances. They can only be used subsequent to a valid prescription. You
> cannot just carry them around for self-service any more than you can carry
> Fentanyl around.

"Viperdoc" > wrote in
:

> Remember that Anthony is not a physician and has never studied
> medicine. He knows nothing about physiology, prescriptions, or
> anything remotely related to medicine. (the same is true for flying).
>
>
>
>

Anthony has yet to demonstrate knowledge of anything pertaining to
life as we know it. The closest relationship between Anthony and real life
is the Microsoft BSD, which is an extremely accurate simulation of
Anthony's brain whenever he attempts to think.